You can contact Mike Derry at:
You can reach John or me here:
Summit Risk Solutions: summitrisksolutions.ca
1 226 802-2762
Safety Dawg Inc: safetydawg.com
1 905 973 7056
Hey, welcome to the trucking risk and insurance podcast. Glad it's a wonderful Friday morning. And I don't know what time it is cause I didn't bring my wristwatch, but it doesn't matter because when we have this guest on its laughing time, this is, this is how good it's going to be today. We have a special, special guest. We're not going to make an announcement. I'm just going to do a quick introduction and we're going to get into it because he's backstage waiting for us to get involved with this conversation. We have none other than the one, the only the world famous world renowned Michael, Mr. Michael Derry. And we're going to talk about the fleet safety council. Michael, how are you doing? How am I <inaudible> First of all, Michael, let me, let me, I just get the applause for ya and you know, well, there we go. A little confetti, No pressure, right? No pressure Whatsoever. There you go. Thanks for, thanks for having me on guys. I've been looking forward to this ever since I was invited on, I am looking forward to it. Well, give us a little background of yourself there. And then Chris is going to get in and ask you a bunch of questions. Cause he's really curious as to what you know or don't know. Well, how much time do you have on the don't know, Let's introduce yourself. Sure. I can do that. Well, obviously my name is Michael Derry and I currently work with intact insurance. I am a senior loss prevention consultant. I've been with Intacct now for, for a couple of years prior to that. Well, Intacct purchased guarantee insurance and that's where I was in the, for the few years prior to that. And I came out of the industry from the over dimensional business. I worked for a company called equipment express and air Ontario. Those are the guys that used to annoy you when you were late for a meeting, you know, running down the highway with everything blocked with the police escorts, front rear, over dimensional loads. We did a lot of the wind tower stuff and a lot of power generation equipment transformers and the like, so we had, there was equipment there from, you know, standard flatbeds all the way through to, you know, equipment that we called the super 19 as you would figure 19 axles. So some pretty big stuff prior to that while I was with, first of all, I was with equipment express for 15 years. So that's a, a significant portion of time. Prior to that, I was with a little company in the Toby cold called off XTL transport, a little 500 trucks, 1200 trailer operation. And I was with them. I was a safety supervisor position prior to that, a couple different positions bounced around until I found out what I wanted to do. But I've been involved in safety training, like driver training and compliance for, oh, I don't know. I guess we're, we're pushing 35 almost 40 years now. Wow. There you go guys. You're old now just to remind you whose opinions are you speaking about? Okay. Well, I talked to the, I talked to the bosses at Intacct and they said, oh God. So although I worked for intact, I do want you to thank you very much, Chris. I want the listeners to know that sometimes I get off completely off the rails. And so I want people to know that what I say to you, the opinions that I have are strictly my own. So yeah, if I say anything, you don't agree with it. Don't be calling Intacct and saying, Hey, that goof on that show, you know, that's me. So I got to Pop you a quick disclaimer, that that was the important part. That's right. So now we've got a pop quiz. We got, it's a skill testing question for us to carry on this show. And it is how many tires on a 19 actual trailer. Oh God. Don't do that to me right now. 76. Yeah. Close, Close. So does that count the tractor as well? Or there's there's no, there's a, there's a 17 axles that have four each and then your steers Two stairs. Perfect. There you go. Good deal. Okay. You pass. No, sorry. 18 axles. 18 axles that have four tires each and then the two stairs. Yeah. So did equipment express have tr trailers that large? Yeah. Yeah. Well give me the shutters. Okay. We're here to talk about the fleet safety council. Sorry. I had to think there were talking about fleet safety council. Just out of curiosity, Michael, how long have you been a member of the fleet safety council? We were just doing the math on that earlier today. And I can't believe I'm going to say this 23 years. Wow, Congrats. Geez. 23 years. Yeah. It's my anniversary coming up in a couple. I wonder if they're going to do anything special for me, you know, one year lets you continue to be a member. They got one year they got at the conference. They got me my own laptop. Yeah. Yeah. I thought it was an ELD for you. Yeah. Yeah. The, everybody at the council makes fun. Cause I I'm kinda old school like you guys, but like really old school. The, they always made fun of me at my chapter because I was electric. I electronically or technologically stunted. I always tell people that if a light switch had three positions, I'd be screwed. Sure. Try. And you got to have a comment about, I spent a fair bit of time, Michael and I have known each other for several years and he, he does have some dysfunctional qualities. He he's a snowmobiler. Like I am, unfortunately he rides a bombard. You, you know, I write something better, but nonetheless he does. He does at least know how to get on the snowmobile. He just doesn't quite understand how it steers yet. So we pull him and it's okay. We pull a sled a lot out of the snow onto the trail, you know, out of the Bush, out of the trees, things like that. But you know, nonetheless, he has a really nice cottage and we get to go drink some of his whiskey There. That, that Poland snowmobiles thing. I remember that so different. I actually have evidence that if needed to be, I can show it on the screen. You're prepared. I am. Exactly. Yeah, it was what was, what was the corner Flippa set. Flip us. Let us Loris, No flip a flip a quad, a source corner. That was Your aquatic corners. Yes. Yes. That was my, yeah, that was my redemption day. There we go. It's a good thing though, is a good thing. Those local farm boys came in, helped us get that. We would have been working at that a lot harder than we did. So, And these are fleet safety, people talking about situations that they get themselves into, but Well we record it. Chris we've recorded it so that we can demonstrate to those what not to do it. It's a learning opportunity that we share with people to say, look, if you don't do this, you won't get into this mess. Well, there you go. Here you go. We worked really hard. And none of the stunt people were injured or any of the animals or vehicles that we operated. No, Can't say so much for the trees, but you know definitely. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And this ties into the Hamilton fleet safety council, right? You were taking it somewhere. Yeah, Yeah, yeah. You can do That. Make a tire, Michael. I always, I I've always, you got to enjoy what it is that you do. And from the time that I first started with driver training, I've always liked throwing a little bit of, you know, levity into the situations. I, I, you know, I was a, an in class and an in-car teacher for, for cars, actual automobiles when I was a much younger man. And I found out that it was easier to keep your students' attention and to, and to get them to relax more. If you could add a little bit of levity and a, and joke around a little bit, obviously, you know, you're not going to joke about serious items, but if you can get somebody to laugh, you can get them to drop that tough exterior. You could, you know, they're, they're, they're somewhat afraid. They really don't know how to take you. So if you, if you get them to drop that, that wall they have in front of them, it's easier to get the information across. And, and I find that, you know, if you, if you can get people to drop that, if you get people to drop that, that wall, then you know, they'll, they'll get the information across a little bit easier. Absolutely. So, So to answer your question directly, Nick Nicholson, God for us, the soul, he's no longer with us from the chapter. One of the guys that really made me feel at home at the Hamilton chapter, when I first joined there, you know, 23 years ago between he and I, that's how the, the Hamilton chapter was renamed the earth. Our nickname is the laughter chapter. So even notice if you're a member of the other chapters, we go take a look at our minutes. It says the laughter chapter right on there, right under Hamilton. So I'll, I'll take some of the credit for that. And I'll give the rest of Mr. Nicholson. Oh, there you go. How many chapters are there? Where were the, I mean there's Hamilton, Toronto Jasso. There's more than one. Good. Okay. That covered that one. Even. I know there's Hamilton. London. No, not one of mine and Kitchener. London. Okay. Windsor, Windsor. Well, I'll tell you what, I'll tell you what, let's have some fun, Chris. Let's see if we can't name them all and I'll give you a hint. I gave you a hint. You can use your digits. You won't have to take off any socks. Okay. Well I know there's nine or I think really? No, I think there's seven. Oh, okay. Oh there, I just gave you the answer, But we got a name of the mall. Got a name All. Oh man. Yeah. Well the, the west I'm okay with it's when we get past Toronto going east. Yeah. It thins out quite a bit. It does up north as well. Yeah. Yep. No. So John named one. So, so you got Windsor, w we'll do the west. We'll cover off the west real quick. So you got Windsor, London, Kitchener, Hamilton, Niagara, and then Toronto. So that's fine. Yup. Yup. And now you've got another two. Yep. Let's let's roll it out there. Drum roll to the north. We have starts with an S you were there for sun. Yes. You were there with your son. Okay. So there, and then we, we got to go east, Got to go east and it used to be Peterborough, but they've renamed it as far as I know. Anyway, Durham, Durham. So that's all, that's all nine minus two. That's right. That's right. So, so, so, so for our listeners who are paying close attention to what we're talking about and riveted by what we are presenting here, what the heck is the fleet safety council? Oh, that's a really good question. The fleet safety council was actually started back in 1964 and there was a group of gentlemen got together. And like-minded individuals that realized that, you know, there would be some benefit to, to gaining a, not a political voice, but an industry voice. And they actually started, they, they, eh, what did the fleet safety, here's another quiz for you. And I don't know if you've got any prizes to give away to your listeners, but what was the fleet safety council called prior to being called fleet safety council? Ooh. Council of driver trainers. Yeah. That was a question that was kind of, I wasn't, who's still called the council of driver trainers. I think it's a lot of people do. There's still, I still have, you know, swag and badges and stuff that still say the, you know, counselor driver trainers on it. And I I'd have to go into some history here to find out when they actually changed the name. But I think, I don't know, sometime around 10 years ago or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. I know when I joined it was still classified as council driver trainers. Yeah. Yeah. So how did you guys get involved, John? How did you get involved? It was back when I owned the whole, the trucking company. John's answering the questions. Okay. So, so, okay. Let me ask the question. So how did I get involved with a fleet safety account? No, God. So I I'm kinda like Michael, I'm a long-term guy in this. I've been in it for many years as well. I think it was the late nineties, early two thousands. When I got involved under my own company, trans global, we had a fleet of trucks and whatnot, and it was happening at the OD in Kitchener. And there was a room that we had rented up there and we'd meet to every second, Tuesday morning for two, three hours. And it was great because it really helped me to meet people in the, to talk about safety, safety items and compliance items and what I needed to do to better manage my operations. So it was a, it was a, it was a great opportunity. W what other questions do you have for John Mike? We talked about this a little while ago, John. When, when did they change the name to the fleet tape? He council. I not quite sure. It was sometime after 2000. I think I'm not exactly sure when I actually was after that. So yeah. While you, while you were going on and on there and your long-winded explanation, I had time to actually go look at the website. It was 2008, 2008. Okay, good. I'm glad you didn't quiz me on that. I would have failed that miserably, so, yeah. And why did they change the name? Do you remember? I think it better reflected what it was that they did with the council of driver trainers. It seemed like it was just, you know, you would think that it was just, just driver trainers involved when it wasn't, it, it, there was a lot greater spectrum of people from the industry. I mean, we had, we had opp officers, we had MTO officers, we had MTO inspectors. We had, you know, obviously a fleet driver trainers, but we also had people from WSID. There was people from the insurance side, there was all kinds of morph. Exactly. So it was a little bit more inclusive to, you know, fleet safety council. Cause that's what we represented was the safety of fleets. Be it, you know, commercial fleets, private fleets, bus fleets, municipal fleets, that sort of thing. Well, Michael, let me ask a question at these. So sorry if I was to join. Are there meetings? Well, first of all, Chris, I've known you for, I dunno how many years now, but we wouldn't let you join. Okay. Thank you. We're pretty well, we're pretty welcoming, but we do have our limits And I appreciate, I wouldn't want to join a club that would have me, so No, yes, we do have meetings. And depending on which chapter you belong to is, is the date that they'll meet. For example, the one that I am in the Hamilton Niagara chapter, which I'll explain how I got down there, when I'm, you know, one of my, I was working in a tobacco, I can talk about that later. We meet the last Thursday of every month, but there's others that meet the, you know, the second Tuesday of every month, there's others that meet the last, you know, the second Thursday of every month. But so, you know, that's set up by your chapter and you know, the nice thing about that is to get back to the meeting part. Yeah. And we would, we would let you join to get back to the meeting. Most, I'm not going to say all, but most of the chapters are structured with their, with their meetings. I'm going to say similar, not identical, but similar. Yeah. We have our regular business that we take care of when we first get going in the morning, we'll we usually start our meetings at nine o'clock. You know, some guys will show up early, you know, we've had a, almost a tradition where we get together at a local breakfast place. We don't meet there, have our breakfast, then we'd head over to, to the meeting location and, and start our meeting then. And we do our regular business there's questions from before. There's a, we have regular segments that we, we talk about. For example, we have, well, Jody Burnett, who a lot of people know, Jodie has been a member of the council for years. And for our chapter, Jody does this section called Jody on justice. And, you know, we used to have a, you remember Rick Gladman, Rick Gladman is still hanging around out there. Rick, Rick, Rick would do regulations. So we had our neat little segments that we would do. And some chapters will have, you know, similar things, but then they'll have a guest speaker. So your guest speaker usually comes on, you know, like 10, 10, 30 sort of thing. And there's a different topic and it's always membership-driven every month. And then there's a question and answer period and so on, but there's also open like round table discussions where anybody at the meeting can bring up anything they want, that they're experiencing at their office that they're having difficulty with, or if they need help with it and just general networking as well. So it's a, it's a, I'm not gonna say it's structured identical for each chapter, but each, each chapter sort of takes on its own personality. And the nice thing about the different dates then is if you hear of a meeting going on at another chapter, like over it, you know, central, the Kitchener one, if I know there's a presentation going on over there, I can go sit in on that one. And, and or I can go to the London one, or I could head over to the, to Toronto chapter and listen into one of their guest speakers if I want it to. So give me a sample of who the guest speakers might be. Cause, Well, we've had, we've had, we've had got a huge range. We've had, I can't recall the name, but we've had a turn from be like how to, how to manage your, your account, your near account. And so on. We've had presenters in from the ministry of transport we've had, like I said, we've had presenters in from the opp. Jody has done her own presentations. I've done my own. We've had, well, this, this month at our chapter, Mike million from the PMTC is bringing us all up to date on what's going on with the e-logs. And then I think we've had presentations on core, you know, the certificate of recognition January next year. We're planning way ahead. We've got Kim Richardson talking about driver retention. So it's, here's the cool thing when we do a registration and I think the other chapters do this as well. When we do our annual registrations, you know, your name and all that stuff where you're from and your contact information. But there's a section down the bottom where you can add in who would you like to see as a presenter? So what an easy job for me, I'm the one that arranges the guest speakers for our location, with the help of a app or nothing. And we right now we're booked, right? Turtle, like next March. As a matter of fact, there's there's we have another guest speaker that you probably know, John, John, I think you've heard of this guy named Chris Harris. I've heard of him. Yeah. I don't know where he's from, but I've heard of it. Yeah. He's, he's, he's coming to speak with us about all things CVOR in November. Wow. And I hope you guys don't go for breakfast before that one, because I don't want you falling asleep during that. You know, you bring up a good point though, as far as going for breakfast and I know things are opening up, but we have basically committed for the rest of this year to finish the year out, virtually, you know, with the pandemic and all, we've had a lot of help from the IHSA and Charlie <inaudible>, there's another fleet safety council, a little story for funds. And Charlie's helped us, you know, with getting the speaker camera set up, you know, the, or the presenters getting their own, you know, network channel so they can come and talk to everybody. And that's been, it's been a great, So I I'm a member of the central chapter as well as London. I joined London this year to try and help bolster up some membership, but also where I live now, I have been, as I moved a lot of guys know I moved, I'm actually closer to London than I used to be, but, but nonetheless, a lot of these great speakers actually make the round to the various different chapters. Their information is so valuable and so rich and, and it needs to be shared that a number of chapters will jump on and say, Hey, can we get him over here? Can we get that person to come over here? So, you know, and as you'd mentioned with it being virtually, now, it's making it a lot easier to actually do that process. And I know Jody for instance, is a good example of a great speaker that has made the rounds, because what she's talking about as a paralegal is valuable, you know? Yeah. Yeah. I was going to start lay down. How Weight you out the exorbitant cost? What does it cost to join us? Being a member? Well, actually, you know, if I can, can I get you to put that on hold? Because just like those cheesy ads on television, I'd like at the very end of that you want to, you got some editing to do. Oh My goodness. Okay. So What other Does the fleet safety break that this is Paul? Oh my goodness. You know, there's, there's just, there's so much to it. Yeah. I, for myself, when I first started, let me say, this is a great way for me to add this in. There was a gentleman from the IHSA and his name was karma and Benedetti. I call them eggs, eggs, Benedict, eggs, Benedetti. So that was just my nickname for Carmen. So I don't want anybody thinking, Hey, that's not his real name. I know it's not his real name. So when I was at XTL, I was relatively new. They're still kind of green as far as, you know, safety supervisor, driver training type of thing. I put some courses together and whatnot, but I was still not really a hundred percent confident in, you know, delivering courses and so on. And I don't know if it was just locker know happenstance or whatever you want to call it. But car mine happened to be dropping in and, and he had a visit set up for, for XTL. So he ended up in my office and he told me about this fleet safety counselor, the council, the driver trainers. I, I didn't know anything about it. So he told me about all the different locations. And this is where the thing comes in about how I ended up down at the Hamilton Agra one. Well, there was a chapter close to us, which when I was in tobacco at XTL, there was the, the, the scent or the Toronto chapter. But I, at the time that I worked at XTL, I lived in Watertown and there was a meeting that Thursday or whatever, and it was just, it was down in Burlington. And so I went to that chapter meeting and it turns out that it was just a temporary location because they were having a course or whatnot. And they actually met somewhere else. I think it was the fifth wheel at the time in Grimsby. And, but that's how I ended up at the, at the Hamilton Magritte chapter. I was just comfortable with the people that I got in with. And, you know, like say, you know, it's, you keep on going back into the same location. And you know, through that chapter, I, I met tons of people through all the other chapters. So as far as other benefits, number one, the networking, if even if you're just inside your own chapter, you're going to meet so many people have so much valuable information. Even today. I know I've been a chapter member for, for a long time, but, and had been in the industry for a long time. But if a question comes up, either for me or any one of my coworkers, I'm usually not reaching for, you know, a business card file or anything. I'm going back into my head or who do I know from my chapter that if I don't have this information, who do I know from my chapter that knows that information or who in my chapter would know where to get that information? Right? Or what speaker presenter did I hear? Who was it that I met, or the other advantage of the fleet safety council? There's the annual conference? Like what speakers were at the federal or at the annual conference? Who did I meet there? Yeah, there's a conference to really now that hasn't been since the beginning of time, I think the first one was in, I think it was in Peterborough. I'm not, I'm not a hundred percent sure I can't recall it, but I think it's like Peterborough, Ottawa or something out there. I couldn't make that one, but they used to travel around. They used to be, you know, you'd have one in Niagara, then there'd be one in Kingston. And then we, as a matter of fact, I remember one being up in Muskoka and there was, they used to move around. But now, and recently they've started to hold them just in the one location. And actually the last two years we had to go virtual. But once, once these pandemic restrictions are dropped and you get a chance to get to one of those conferences, you gotta go, you gotta go. I rambled a bit there tonight. Sorry. Well, I've, I've been to several of those fleet conferences. Yeah. Because I have in the past been a member I'm currently not a member today, but that can easily change in the future. Lay out the costs. I mean, if I wanted to join and I know you can only address, at least I think you can only address the cost for Hamilton because I hear that they are slightly different, but they're all similar. What is the exorbitant cost of joining the fleet safety council? Is this the part where you want me to say, can you hold that question till the end? Well you could. Or is this a part where you really want me to answer it? We can answer it because I think it's a huge value for the, the little bit of money that is charged. It's I can't believe people wouldn't join, but it's not for money that I'm not a member. Yeah. Let me just, let me just say, you know, to, to, to sound like one of those cheesy television ads. So you, we meet 10 times a year. You have access to numerous people, even just within your chapter, IHSA reps, being the minimum, being the start, every because every chapter has its IHSA representative. That's basically who I'm not going to say support, but that is the regular, the regulator arm. If you want to call it that, that, that theater facilitator, the administrator facilitator, facilitator, facilitating administrator or administrating facilitator either. Okay. Is the IHSA. So the, the networking booth, who's the, the industrial health and safety associations close. You're so close. So close. I am infrastructure. Oh, infrastructure. Did I say industrial industrial industrial list I think is what it is. Okay. Yeah. Infrastructure health and safety association. Oh man. I can't believe I said that anyway. So each chapter has a facilitator that is representative of the infrastructure, health and safety association. So just the information that's available in that one connection is phenomenal. Now you take in all the different other members that are available or that are, that are either honorary members, retired members, full-time members, all from different types of businesses and different types of our regulatory arms. Like I said, the OPPE, the MTO and so on. And then other consultants such as you gentlemen, there's numerous contacts that are available through each one of those chapters. Now you've got those meetings that happen once a month. Now you take in the guest speakers that come in. So every month you're snowballing this information, it's getting more and more. Then you have the ability, as I said to go to other chapters, if you wish, then you also have the ability to go to and an annual conference where there are another numerous guest speakers, presenters, advertisers, presenters, whatever, at, at these, at these conferences as well. So having all that, you would think that, you know, you'd be looking at a membership like thousand bucks, like or hundreds of hundreds of dollars anyway. And it's $50 for my chapter, 50 bucks. Come on. Say that again. 55, 0 1 5 5. And there's some chapters that I think are only 35, depending on which one you go to. And if you can also, if you are a, if you want a corporate membership, so you can get, you know, more than a couple of people going in each meeting, or if there's more than one going to the meeting, you can buy those at varying prices. And it varies by chapter. I can't speak for all right. Yeah. Yeah. All right. The shit. Why did you to get out is damn it's cheap compared to the value that being a member, what you're getting. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I, and, and this isn't, it's not a knock on other associations and whatnot. Not at all because other associations, they, you know, their, their, their fee structures are set up to meet their requirements. The, the fleet safety council can afford to do this because a lot of its work is volunteer work as well. So, you know, people that are in there as, as the chair and co-chairs, and, and, you know, speaker presenters, and so on every, all the, all the work is is, is volunteer. Quiet. Oh, I thought I was getting paid next month. Nope. Sorry. Oh yeah. Oh actually, no, sorry, Chris. Yeah, you aren't getting paid. Yeah. Yeah. I'll send you the contract over later. There'll be a donut there with your name on it. Yeah, no, I just wanted to say, you know, I have been a member. I mean, in my past days when I worked for the insurance company, of course we were, the company was a corporate member and I always got value out of it. I just have a harder time at the moment making it to the meetings. That's the only reason I'm currently not a member. Although I think that's going to change, especially I should have been a member during this COVID with the meetings being virtual. I could have attended much more easily Now I could have attended every chapter. Yeah. Well, I wasn't doing much. So Hey, question for you. And I don't know if you can answer this going forward, as you said, you've already said that the, your chapter's going to meet virtually until the end of, at least the year. But after that, do you think, what are the plans? Are they going to be, in-person only, are they going to be hybrid? Are they going to be some virtual, some in person have any thought been given to that yet? Yeah, actually this, one of the things that we're working on right now, and I'm, I think, I think they're leaning towards the hybrid model. I'm not quite sure how they're going to do it, whether they'll have a, you know, a camera there, whether they're recorded for playback later, I'm not really sure how they plan to do it, but it is in discussions already. And the, and the, the, you know, the people in the organizing committees, the ones, you know, further up the line than me, those are the ones that are working on that right now. Yeah. That would be, I would love a hybrid because I only, because I think there's so much value in in-person, however there's times when I can't make it in person. And I, I would miss the awesome value of being, I thought, meeting and hearing that presenter. So Yeah, I can add that. I know with the central chapter here, I think the membership or not membership, sorry, attendance has gone up a little bit because of the convenience of meeting, but one of the biggest points is the recording of the virtual meeting and whatnot that recording can be viewed at any time later. So that's made it much more convenient where I missed it. Oh, darn I missed it. I wanted to see that speaker. Well, now I can go back to the recording and I can see who the speaker was and hear what they had to say and, and continue with that value. And I look at the gentlemen, this has been awesome, but we're heading, I know we're around 30 minutes. It's not past John. And I just did a live a few minutes ago and we went way past the time, normally scheduled Michael, last word to you. Y you know, what the heck is the fleet safety council? Why would somebody join specifically? I'm thinking of somebody starting their safety career in this awesome industry of ours. Okay. Well, I can, I can, you know, I'm not, my brain is not that bad that I don't remember getting into the business by myself. And I I'll speak from my own experience. I was not really comfortable with, you know, the abilities to experience what it is that I had to do. I was, you know, still really, really green when I was introduced to the chapter. And it's almost like a, almost like a health and safety support group. You're surrounded by like-minded individuals that, that have either been there or done that and can give you all the support that you need. They can point you in the right direction when you're first getting into this business, you know, especially with the smaller companies, when they, when they bring somebody on who maybe doesn't have a lot of background, if that's you, and you're wondering, geez, where can I go to learn this? Or, or, or who can give me information on that? You can, you can spend lots of time, you know, Googling it and researching and whatnot for yourself. And, and there's nothing wrong with that. But if, if, if you want to sit across from somebody that's been there and done that before, or rub elbows with somebody who already knows what that form is, or nor that knows the best way to monitor your WSID or to, or where do you get information from, you know, your, your SMS scores in the U S any of that sort of stuff, or how to handle yourself in court, no better place than the fleet safety council. No better. And with that, Mr. Derry, I think that was awesome. Thank you so much for coming on the show, John, and you're not speechless. John Farquhar. Awesome. Awesome. Cutting. Have better. Could have better, et cetera. No, I just, I couldn't speak it any better than he does. It's excellent. He's still right. Thanks, Mike dairy. That was awesome. Mike was speaking about his experience with the fleet safety council. If you're getting value from this show, please give us a, like a comment. Who would you like to hear on the show? That would be awesome. We would respond. And from John Farquhar of summit risk solutions and myself, Chris Harris safety dog, that's it for this week, the safety dogs.