Trucking Risk and Insurance Podcast

Distracted Driving, Andrew Stacey

October 01, 2021 John Farquhar & Chris Harris Season 2 Episode 2
Trucking Risk and Insurance Podcast
Distracted Driving, Andrew Stacey
Show Notes Transcript

Andrew Stacey of Aviva Insurance has some great thoughts about Distracted Driving. 

Disclaimer: "The content of this podcast is for information and conversation only, it is not intended to be relied upon as specific direction or advice.  Andrew does work for Aviva, however, Aviva accepts no responsibility for actions taken as a result of any reliance on information provided in this podcast."

Andrew's article is on page 47,

You can contact Andrew via email,

Here is how you can get in touch with your hosts: 
Summit Risk Solutions

Chris Harris
Safety Dawg Inc.

Ooh, and welcome to another episode of the trucking risk and insurance podcast, where John Farquhar and I, Chris Harris bring interviews with top trucking safety professionals, trucking company owners and influencers. This week's guest is Mr. Andrew, Stacey of Aviva Insurance, and we get right into it. But first let me read this disclaimer, that Andrew is asked being included. So here we go. The content of this podcast is for information and conversation only. It is not intended to be relied upon as specific direction or advice. Andrew does work for a Veeva. However, a Veeva accepts no responsibilities for actions taken as a result of any reliance on the information provided in this podcast. So that's the disclaimer. In other words, a Veeva wants to allow Andrew to participate and spread the good word. However, take us all, all three of us with a grain of salt, because we can be pretty foolish at times. All right, with that, let's get right into this week's interview. Welcome to another episode of the unnamed podcast for now. It's going to be called trucking insurance, risk management, something or other don't know yet we are still waiting for your suggestions. What are we calling the new podcast that features Mr. John Farquhar as the man of the world and myself, you have to put up with me and guests like Stacy mist. Well choke, choke, Mr. Andrew, Stacey of Aviva insurance, a safety guy. Extraordinary. Welcome Andrew. Thank you guys. It's a pleasure you back. Glad to have you have it. You know, it's always great to have another white haired fellow join us on this podcast, which is just phenomenal, full of wisdom and knowledge and Christmas mugs. Well, I know I noticed the Andrew trimmed his beard though. Oh, I did. I did. Yeah. It's it's not I'm I'm not trying to follow the John Tran. It's the John Farquhar starter set. Oh, John's got too much hair on the top of the head. Three, three men and a beer. That's my goal. That would be a good name of a podcast. What are we talking about today? Mr. John? What's the, you chose this? I did. I did. And I chose this for a couple of reasons. One, because it's a fresh of mind by all means after this past weekend, during the, or not this past weekend, the weekend prior to this recording anybody, but there was just recently a virtual driver training session, compliments of the safety dog and care Ts where one of the segments talked about distracted driving. So it's kind of hot topic. It's something that's ongoing, but also of interest is Mr. Stacey here recently wrote an article on distracted driving as well. So I thought, Hey, a bit of a common theme. It's a problem within the industry. And I thought, Hey, hot topic. Everybody talks about it, but nobody talks enough about it. So I kind of thought let's chat about it and throw some 2 cents worth in there. So Mr. Andrew, can you tell us, what's your background very briefly who you're working for and why in the heck should the viewers give, give a rat's ass as to what Andrew's Daisy says? Sorry. Introduce yourself. My friend. Well, I'm, I'm a national fleet safety loss control specialists with a Viva insurance. I've been with the Viva now just coming on to five years. And I want to give a shout out if I can really quick, because last week during the trucker week, you know, as we always say back in again, and I get to go see, you know, the safety people we owners, we don't get to converse with Y persons often. And so it was really nice. I want to have to deal with the AMDA who I'm a member of and you're passing out, you know, get bags to the drivers as they were across the scales and everything. So I know it's the week after, but I'll say it, you know, I'll say it now, thanks to the truckers for everything that they do. It's been a rough year, you know? So thank you for, for everything you guys do and let's hold for another good safe here. Well, trucking, trucking appreciation. Shouldn't just be one week out of the year. It should be every week, every day of the year, because as they say, if you've got it, a truck brought it, Oh, this is true. And you know, we, three of us that here, I've known you guys for quite some time. We've all started in that spot. And, you know, it's, it was nice to actually be able to get out and go see them, you know, because of the fact, like I said, I always get to go see the other people. Now I get to see us, the safety people. I get to see the owners wrong with, you know, with an underwriter. And actually it was an underwriter that asked me to volunteer my time to do that. So showed up to the underwriter for doing that. And Louis I'll give you up off there. Exactly. So, so were you, you went to the scale, you said, were you out there all week or just one day of the week or part of a day? Or like, what was the, how did that work out? I went to the Strathmore scale, which is just on the east side of Calgary on highway one. And I was out there for, what was it all? Four hours, I think last Thursday. And so it was just the one day, but they had done it at different locations throughout the week with different volunteers at various locations and everything else. So I just happened to pick that up, worked out well with the owner. I've seen a lot of tweets on it. So yeah, I was just going to say kudos to a Veeva to, you know, say, Hey, yeah, we'll pay you to go out there and, you know, be our representative to do that. So seriously. That's great that the insurance industry and specifically a Veeva support you in that, Oh, we're very strong in the community when it comes to volunteering, you know, for, for a lot of different, a lot of different things, but they were extremely supportive in this. So, you know, I do appreciate it. It's it's, it's good. It's a good back. Awesome. Distracted driving. Is it a problem Mr. Mandela got call here. I gotta take this call. I think, oh, mom Know it is, it is a problem. And what really got me involved with this one? It wasn't so much statistics. Now. I did some background work before I wrote the article for the PMT and I did look at statistics with it and I was shocked by it just by the numbers. And you know, what my thing was is I'm an avid motorcycle. And I like to spend my summer as much as I possibly can. You know, I'll ride my motorcycle out towards the mountains, doing everything, you know, get no light weights, fresh air. And the stress-free times John likes his winter on result in the snow. I liked the summer of two wheels. Every time I gloat, I seem to have a problem with, you know, finding the person that's sitting there texting while they're driving or they're cutting in my lane. And when you're, when you're hypervigilant and you're not on a motorcycle, you seem to pick this out even more. And it was something that I just started to notice. And so over, over the past two years, I've really spent a lot of time out on the city streets because of COVID and stuff like that. If we're going to visit clients and up and taking my motorcycle and it's ridiculous, the amount of texting and driving that I see and the response I get when I ask people, when I get up beside them to put your phone down is pretty disheartening. Some four letter words Read between the lines. You know, I, I, I'm not going to pick on one person or the other, like whether it be a male or female type thing, but I can tell you, I get surprised. And I mean, I come from the, you know, the trucking industry, it's pretty hard to make me blush, you know what I mean? We've all been around it and everything else like that, but I've had a couple instances where, you know, I've had to shake my head and go while on. I didn't see that. So what, you know, there's, there's different, there's different. Women's to the, to the style of texting too, or, you know, distracted driving, you know, there's those that you see one down the road that you can tell they're texting, they're staring down at their lap, they've got their head buried into their steering wheel or there's the other ones is, you know, you're up in the industrial sections and then they have their phone up to their face and they're talking because it's not up to the rear. So they figured that that's, you know, it's, it's almost like a hands-free type thing, but I mean, it's, it's integrated, it's, it's a part of our life and it's a really bad kitchen. And it just, I, you know, even though this statistics here in Alberta, because I was reading them this morning and seemed to be getting better from 2017 on, I do believe that COVID has played a real big role in that without having the vehicles on the road as much. So, you know, the police aren't being able to, to get them as often and stuff like that. But I mean, from what I see, it's, it's never ending. So just to summarize when you're on your bike, you have absolutely no problem attracting those around you who are texting and driving it. Is that the summary of it? Yeah. That's, that's very fair. You know, like I said, cause you're hypervigilant and I ride as if I'm in, I have to write as if I am absolutely invisible. So I have to watch everybody much. It's like possibly, and even the began, it's part of the, you know, safety in it and it's, it's hard, but yeah, you do, you do see a lot of it. Yeah. Which is, which is too bad. You know, John, this is one of the things, when I phoned you, I got a voicemail saying that you've been kidnapped by something or other mint millions or something Or You're driving and your phone's in the trunk. Yup, Yup, yup, exactly. It's you know, and the sad part is we have to practice what we preach and everybody preaches the same thing, but we also all have distractions, you know? So it's how we manage those distractions. Every one of us, like there, there's no one person you could point to, to say, oh, he's got a problem with distracted driving. He's got it. Everybody has it. We all do you know what? We're all looking out the front window and that, Ooh, that's interesting. Oh, that's kinda neat. We just took her eyes off the road for two seconds. Distracted us from our task. Right. It doesn't matter. It could be a billboard. It could be a sign. We all have it. I think you have a new funky car. It's a Tesla and it has one of these great big I pads in the middle of it for crying out loud. That in itself can be distracting. Cause something could blink and it's going to take your attention away from the car. Everybody's got the problem. It doesn't matter what it is. I have a big infotainment center in the front, in the middle of my dash, something blinks on it. Oh, I'm looking over at it. Wow. Let me say, put the, the car in my old car, a Ford edge. I couldn't punch in an address while I was moving. Right. I've got an edge as Surprised as hell when I can punch in the address will I'm moving in a Tesla. Is that I Know that being a safety guy. Yes it is. And it, I think, and kudos to Tesla. I really think they've pushed the envelope a little bit, but I'll tell ya, my brother-in-law just bought a Hyundai brand new thing for $20,000. I think he paid for it. It was something ridiculously inexpensive. And it came with a heated steering wheel, heated seats, all that kind of stuff. And it's got the stand, the lane controls. Wow. And stuff like that. So the features of a Tesla and a Mercedes and a BMW are quickly dripping down into the, what do you say? Just the everyday vehicles or the more affordable vehicles. Cause this Honda is, is a great little vehicle and it's got stay in your lane Crap. So some of those, some of those luxury options are now becoming standard features on the lower end cars, which is excellent. It's great. And it's sad to say this. I'm going to say it, but people need help. You know, when you're driving down the road, I, anybody that sits there and goes, no, I don't need it. I'm a perfect driver is lying to themselves. And everybody else, there is no perfect driver out there cause we're all distracted in one form or fashion, you know? So anything that'll make life a little bit easier. We drive too long. That lane departure system would be great. When I start to get a little tired, it would help remind me, you know what? I'm not as fresh as I was. Maybe I should pull it over, take a break, you know, parked for the night or whatever B, but there there's great safety features out there, but we kind of want to Bach at them. Well, you know, some of us do and then others don't have the safety, safety features, but continually be distracted because they don't really want to stop. You know, which is a problem. Let me ask Andrew a question. Sorry, Andrew, you were going to say something. Oh, I was just going to say, you know what, like just to go on with what was drawn was saying, you know, it's, I don't know that we want to stop or don't want to stop. I don't know that we can't. Right. Like I, you know, it has become such an addiction. And just one of the things that I looked at when we were white, when I was reading this article was, you know, that, you know, people over the ages of 15 to the age of, I think it's 45. It's like 97% of people have fallen out. Right. So it's not like the days I, the beer chosen. It's not like the eighties when we used to be able to pick up our phone and get the dial tone and call to our friends, everybody now, I mean, when I go out on the road, I take two cell phones. All my we're not going to comment on that. No, But you know, we, we know. And the thing is now we've got all this social media and you're such a divided. I mean, not, I don't want to get into politics here in any which way, shape or form, but we are so divided and we get onto our social media and then we've got to have that, you know, there's, there's all those shows that are showing you, you know, the dopamine effect of, of using all these lights and everything. So now all of a sudden you've got this own set and beside you, and you know, as we're talking, not just as a personal person, but as a feat in, and you send a, you know, a driver, a text message or something like that. And you tell them, you know, don't, don't read that text until you stop. That's pretty hard when he's sitting there and it's an addiction, you know, it's, it's, it's a human addiction that goes with it. You know, where they say, just to read this off to you, you know, 45% of people check their phone every half an hour, 56%, half to check it before they get to bed. And personally, after I read all this, I decided to put my phone away an hour and a half before bed. And it must go into different room, but my wife and my daughter to not do the same thing. And yes, then after have their phones, before they go to bed or, you know, basically sleep with them. Right. So it's, it's an addiction and that's the problem. How many people use their phone? Like I do. It's my alarm clock. Yeah. I don't, I don't do that. I I'm similar to, to Andrew where, when I'm done with this, while it stays in my office, unless I'm out of the house somewhere, I'll take it with me. But yeah, when come the end of the day, this stays in the office. It doesn't go out into the living room. It doesn't go in. My bedroom stays here. Do you have a host phone? No, no. Well, there's another side to this where, you know, when people are sitting there using that phone, that late at night, while I blue screen technology and everything, you know, it, it limits their sleep good. It drives their sleep patterns and everything else like that. Then you have much for fatigue driver the next day. And this is a something that just keeps calling pounding and enrolling down the road. And you know, it's not that again, I don't have statistics that they just, it's not that I'm going out and seeing like a, an extremely large amount of accidents that are Oz by distracted driving or, or whatever. But when I get into the client and I'm talking to them and I see things like rewriting coalitions, or if I see a trend, a lot of times you will find out that there's a big D it embeds into that. Right. And you know, you can have that conversation with them on how to reduce that. Because of course, even though right now, the legislation is not like a criminal offense. It can certainly get that way very quickly after the collision of the severe enough. Oh, perfect. You say that because there's a lot of insurance providers now that are, are looking at danger or of distracted driving as a major offense ranking up there, listen to dangerous driving. So Article was, you know, this is our new DUI. Yeah. That is very much the way I look at it, especially when I'm out seeing a client. And if I see carrier profiles that will have a listed name, that, and it will say a handheld device on it or something of that nature. That's, it's usually how I go and discuss it with them. And I treated the same as the DUI. Well, the only difference I think between that and DUIs is distracted, is hopping more happening more frequently than, Yeah. The numbers do suggest that it was higher than, you know, the fidelity. Great. And the accident rate is higher than drinking and driving nowadays, which surprisingly enough is that also we still have a problem with It's another whole show drinking and driving or substance abuse and driving. Yeah. Right. And then the distracted driving aspect has taken a huge increase just since the pandemic alone. So 20, 19, 20 20, the stats have seen things, collisions increase because of the distracted driving issues. You know, when, when the pandemic started, everybody was at home, the highways were open. It's a free for all, you know, and I'm sure drivers thought, well, there's nobody out here. I can have a look at this. Nobody's going to bother me. But as you've mentioned, Andrew, it's an addiction. So it doesn't stop when the traffic starts to build again And, you know, everywhere we go, everything seems to be filled with it. Right. And there's a big misconception too, where people will say, you know, we've got Bluetooth technology in our car. We don't, or in our trucks, we don't have to use our phone. We can, you know, we can discuss things as I under, you know, and I understand that that's legal in most areas. And you know, I can't speak for all of north America, but it's still distracted. You know, there's enough science out there to tell you and show you that that is not the way to go. You know, it's, we have to focus on the road in front of us. The roads are more congested now that people are coming back, you know, we'll maybe you're in Alberta, but you, people are more sorry for going back. And Joel, I don't want to get into politics now. Yes, No other we're under, COVID 4.0, here we're a little bit closed off, but not too much, but you know, people are going back out in the road. And another thing that I'm seeing a lot this year too, with following social media, because I have thanked my social media to follow trucking pages, to follow, you know, industry related stuff, more than anything else. Right. So I can see what's going on in the industry and I'm seeing a lot in drivers. Right. So when you, when you're up there and you see all these people going, I'm going to go for my license tomorrow. I'm gonna go for my license tomorrow. Yay. I just got my license and you know, isn't motorcycles were also up with, you know, fatal solutions. I think it's like 90% here in Alberta or something like that. And this year it's like, you know, it, it felt like every second week we were getting an article saying this, you know, killed all their own. Right. Because they're new and they're overriding and everything, but, you know, go ahead and stop people from, you know, going out and go into work everyday or something like that. But they're, you know, they're getting into other things that they will recycling or driving or, or things of that nature. Right. So there's a lot of newness on. Yeah, no there's distracted. Driving is just that. And I'm investigating an accident right now or a collision right now. And I'll tell you that in the event of a crash, they get your cell phone record and they compare it. And in this case they can't, they can't pin it to the exact, the driver was on the cell phone. It looks like approximately the same time as the crash, it is so close, but they can't pin it exactly. And say that you were talking on the phone and you're right. Andrew, this particular unit has a Bluetooth technology. So the driver legally was not breaking the law. Perhaps the driver was distracted, But you know, as we see the, the litigation's getting higher and let's, you know, speaking of the United States, you know, with the nuclear verdicts and the one down in Florida now, that's, I do believe it's like a billion dollars. That's distracted driving. There's there's a guy dropping down there on his phone. I, if I could remember correctly reading that one, They did. Yeah. They didn't specify what the distraction was, but they did say he was distracted because he didn't touch the brake pedal until one second before impact. So it could have been anything. And he was traveling at 70 mile an hour on cruise control prior to that. So the assumption is he was probably on his phone. Well, and, and you're talking about the Quebec truck, correct? Yeah. The two carriers. Yeah. Well, a Quebec truck though is supposed to be governed at 1 0 5. So how in the heck is he traveling at 70 is just Throwing that You guys, Quebec and Ontario are the only two jurisdictions in north America. I believe that are, have governing still. So, and it's 1 0 5, which is what? 62 and a half or something. Miles per hour, 63 miles per hour or something? 65 65. Okay. I'm not good at that conversion stuff. Eh, Okay. But 65. So he was traveling. He, I mean, he could have been going downhill, perhaps not a lot of Hills in Florida though. As I remember Not much at the top end, they lose just outside of Jacksonville when it took place pretty flat out there. Yeah. So I don't know how we got up to 70. It's a mystery. Yeah. Yeah. I bet. Yeah. Let's see. That's, you know, that's, that's the hard part, right? Yeah. Well, you know, and I've said it many times to people that the faster you go over 55 mile an hour, the faster you go, the more you need to pay attention, because things are moving very quickly, you know, it's, it's happening faster than you ever thought it could. Well, there was a statistic in there that in any game, it's, it's a new one to know what you're doing. 90 kilometers an hour. And you, you glance down at your phone. You basically, by the time when it's down and you come back up, you've gone over the distance of a football field. Yeah. The presentation I just did was at 105 kilometers an hour. It's 30 meters or 96 feet. So yeah. Three seconds looking down. Boom. You're past. Yeah. Yeah. 96 feet per second. That 1 0 5. Yeah. That's I don't know how many meters that is, but it's a lot 30, 30, And it is harder to you because there's a lot of carriers. There's a lot of different, different types of fleets, you know, that are running around using the technology. So the technology is out there and we're going to have to, you know, somewhat learn to work within it, obviously, because I mean, it's not going away. It's just advancing, you know, as, as your Tesla will suggest everything is advancing in that direction. Hopefully there is more safety features to come for those kinds of things. But, you know, there are little things within policies that they can do. And, you know, I mean, if we're using it for GPS and all that kinds of stuff and, you know, try to keep the text out of people's eyes, you know, try to keep it down, you know, like a pitcher type thing, make sure that it's not in a spot where it's going to impede, you know, the forward facing of the, the eyes through the windshield, you know, it, it, it can be audible so that they can call out the, you know, there's, there's something for you. Like when I'm riding my motorcycle and I'm going to a location, I do have a GPS on my phone. They will call out the location. And my years in my home, because I'm going down the road, I don't physically have to look down at it. It will tell me, you know, 600 meters, 700 meters, I'm going to make a right-hand turn on such and such a street. And, you know, you could be prepared and we'll tell you what waiting to be in and everything else like that. We just can't adjust those things. Well, we're driving. Right. Which is the problem. And that's what we're seeing all along. Yeah. We got to wrap this up. I got one question. One more question that is related to this distracted driving. We know that cause you've mentioned advancements in technology. We know that a dash cams of course are strongly, I would say urged by every insurance carrier. And I would imagine Viva's no different there. How about driver facing dash cams? Because you mentioned my car, there was a software update recently in, in my model, a car, there is a camera facing the driver and it had never been turned on yet. And during a software update, I got the option of turning on the interior camera. And I said, yes, because it's my opinion that should I crash? I won't be doing anything that I would be ashamed of or anything that was inappropriate. Therefore I'm all in favor of driver facing dash-cam so full disclaimer, nothing To hide, Sorry. As it is. One of the things that I won't promote when I'm with, when I'm with a client and it's not so much that I'm promoting that because you know that the insurance company is telling me to do that. You know, having a brother that has been one of Calgary's pop traffic cops and getting to know the ins and outs of some of the tastes that they get to see and for a legal purpose and, or, you know, like you said, if, if you're going down the road in this, in an incident happens, and if you've got nothing to hide, because you haven't done anything except drive vehicle, you know, then it's great. But a lot of those cameras to also have the technology for the guys that are doing long haul that if they start to dose, it's going to send bowler. You know, it's not necessarily, and it's not spying on your privacy. It's not, you know, doing the things that, of course the conspiracy will throw out there. It is there to help. It's, it's, it's an aid aid. Right. And I, I wish I had that one when I was driving. You know, cause I mean, now I just got a card that tells me to stop, you know, and upset it up that way. But you know, a forward and driver facing camera, I completely support. And I mean, some of the new cameras, I don't have these, my customers have told me though that they have AI artificial intelligence built into them and we'll send the safety department a, an email saying, Hey, it looks like the driver might be on their cell phone. And then that gives the safety department a clip to review to see if the artificial intelligence was correct, but a number of different things such as drunk driving and other inappropriate, If I could throw in there, some of that AI technology is actually ranked on a scorecard that the driver actually gets to see. So the number of head bobs you have or what looks like you're looking at your cell phone or something like that will help, will actually knock your score down. And I've actually heard the opposite effect where I've had some drivers come back to safety and go, I just bent over to scratch my head and it come up with a warning and said that I'm losing two points off my safety score because it thought I was looking at a phone when I wasn't, I was paying attention. So, but I think the safety officer at that opportunity has the ability to go and look at it and go, no, that was not a distracted situation or a poor behavior issue. And should be able to pull that back and go, no, no, he did nothing wrong and, and score goes back up, but nobody should be afraid. I agree with both of you, nobody should be afraid of a forward facing dash camera unless you've got something to You mean the driver facing dash cam. Yes. Sorry. Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. Unless the driver's got something to hide that, you know, other than that, there should be no reason. I mean, I've heard from drivers and they say, come on Chris, you know, I'm in this truck for 11 hours or 13 hours in a day. I sometimes do look at my fault. And you know, obviously I don't endorse it because when I drove, I stopped at least four times at all. And at my elderly age now it would probably be a few more than just four times I'm telling you about, But back in the day, Chris, we had to stop. We didn't have a cell phone. We had to find a payphone to make a phone call, to call dispatch about that load. We didn't have one of these, you know, and even when You call in before this time and call before this time at the end of the day, so we know where you are. This was all before technology. I was never distracted by a cell phone when I grow. Now you had all the other stuff out the window. Oh, nice car. Ooh, jeez. Oh, that's a good site. Oh, there's a crash. You know, Ooh, there's a billboard. You know, you had the other distractions you had to manage. Now you're adding this and this is even worse because now this is in the cab and then you've got those infotainment centers. You've got GPS, you've got, ah, mapping devices, all this stuff, which we have to do a better job at managing. Well, as Andrew says, it's no different than booze. It's a distraction or it's an addiction And addiction. Yep, exactly. So, But I'd like to say on this end and before we knew her up on, on the fleet end, okay. With the safety people, they get a little bit cranky at times when I go in and I, and I, and I stress on it and you know, because it's one of those things that it hasn't happened to me. Right. So, you know, I like to just throw out there to the guys, you know, the safety people to the drivers to have a good look at your driver policy and just make sure that you're, you're up-to-date and you've are, you know, describing exactly what distracting ruggedness, not everybody does understand it. Common sense. Isn't Darren till it's taught. So we have to be the leaders in this area and go out and do such a thing for them and, and spell it out, not spare, but you know, I go and I went through a safety policy and I see, you know, two sentences that say, you can use your phone while you're driving that doesn't describe distracted driving it. Doesn't give the driver a sense of, you know, and if he's going down the road and something else happens and he has a severe collision and he's, you know, in been charged with, you know, a criminal offense of some point because of it, then, you know, I think it's just something that on, on our end to safety people, we've got to deliver that message a lot stronger and be a lot more aware of the problem than it is. Thank you, Mr. Stacy, have a Veeva insurance. Well said stuff. All right. With that. Any last words? Go ahead, Andrew. I was going to say any last words, Andrew. I'm good. I, I think I just dabbled that last part off there. So I got my mind that I really want to do. And you know, I'm going to continue looking for clients as I go up there and make sure that they get it and understand it. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, the one thing I'd throw in at the end, it's not that the safety people or the truck drivers don't appreciate or are stupid. Let me say it that way. And we, the three of us who all have worked for insurance companies and Andrew, you still are, there are so knowledgeable. That's not what we're trying to say. The difference is the three of us have got to see some horrendous Rex working with the different claims departments. And we're certainly, or at least speaking for me, I'm no smarter than anybody else out there. It I've got different knowledge yet I've seen and been part of. And my God it's changed my behavior. And if I can pass that on to other people, you know, that knowledge, it would change their behavior. I'm sure too. It's just that, as you said, you mentioned common sense, Andrew. It's just once you've seen it enough times you go, oh my God, this has got to stop. Yeah. Well, Andrew, Andrew had a good Fraser when he said that the customer said it hasn't happened to them yet. Well, the problem is it's no longer if it'll happen. It's when it'll happen. The numbers are so high. Now it's going to happen to everybody sooner or later. You don't know when you can't predict it. You can't say when you can't even say, oh, that'll never happen to me. Cause then it will happen sooner. But it's it's, this is crazy. It's gotten out of hand and, and we all have to do a better job at managing it. So, and I would agree with you, Chris. It's changed my behavior in the last 10 years because I see so much of it. As, as Andrew said, you know, on his motorcycle, he sees so much of it. He's gotta be hyper aware of what's going on because of the people around him. You know, I drive a classic car. I'm super hyper when I'm around people, because don't think my car not worth a lot of money, but I can't replace it. And Andrew, last word I can't be replaced. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. We're all classmates Beautiful with that to our viewers and our listeners. Thanks for listening to the unnamed podcast as of right now. All right. I appreciate it. Thanks everybody for joining us for the interview this week with Andrew, Stacey of a Viva insurance. Hope, hopefully you enjoyed it. Give us a like, and a comment. If you are enjoying the content of the show and join us again next week for another interview. Thanks so much. The trucking risk and insurance podcast is I.