My guest this week is Gary Dhaliwal, of Hutch Systems. Their ELD has been approved by Transport Canada! Transport Canada has set their ELD mandate out. At the time of this recording (August 12, 2021) Hutch Systems has complied with the Canadian ELD Mandate.
For more information on the Hutch Systems compliant ELD, go to:
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Welcome to another episode of the Dawg On-It Trucking Pawedcast, who is in ended the Dawg house this week, Gary Dhaliwal from Hutch Systems. And he is excited to share that Hutch Systems is the very first ELD provider certified in Canada. And we get into how the certification process works. What are the pitfalls that you might watch out for when you do your research to select an ELD certified provider? All right, so let's get on with the show, Gary, welcome to the Dawg on it, trucking podcast. And the first thing I want to say is congrats Hutch. I just got off the website, transport, Canada, and Hutch is still the only certified provider of the ELD System in Canada. So I just want to say congrats and Gary, welcome. Tell us how did Hutch become the first certified provider of LDS in Canada? So let's, first of all, I will introduce myself to begin and I would like to, my name is Gary well, I'm the founder of NCO of Hutch Systems. And, and I would like to thank you, BMTT CPA and all of the other government bodies and CMTS transport, Canada to do find the, give us the opportunity to design an ELD to be, to be certified in Canada. So I would like to think of them first. Yay. Here, I'll give You another <inaudible>. So how did we become the first certified? I'm actually proud of the team of work we have done. And this was a team effort, not just a solo effort. And we got a very dedicated team of engineers, of the support staff of management, and we worked extremely hard to achieve this, this ELD certification. And as my team, the question was how come we became the first one, my team. And I love reading the technical documents. That's our, to that's our go-to material to read. And personally I do not. I get bored with the novels and the, but if you give me a textbook to read and or any technical material to read, yeah, we'd love that. Cause that's a, that's our passion and our passion is tracking as well. And years of experience in the industry, I have been a driver myself and a lot of the other deep team players that are in the Hutch team. They are involved in the trucking sector themselves at the one point of time they have been, and I have been a driver, as I just mentioned a dispatcher and a PFT consultant Engineer. Well, we got to go back to the safety consultant part, yay for the safety consultants in the world, but you were also an engineer. Yes. And having all of this experience that actually helps us tremendously because of this ELD space and safety consulting. And this Badger looking from the driver's point of view. And we took all of that in and we implemented the ELD and we spent a month reading the F when FMC Etsy had their regulations out, we spent, we spent a month reading it, taking notes, planning. And finally we released our first self-certified ELD to be registered with the FMC FC. And we were the fourth one to do that. And we were the first Canadian company to do that as well. So, and I am, I'm actually very keen to know who were the first three, because I cannot find the man that's, I would love to hear from them their story. How did they beat us to, to, to be, to be the first three? And when it came down to Canadian mandate, we did everything right to FMC a technical standards. Because as I mentioned, we love reading technical standards and the wind Canadians introduced the regulations. And we just jumped on 'em a week out there, test the procedures, read the technical standard. And when we realized all of the, all of what was required, found that there were only very minor weeks that we needed to, to make in our software to comply with the technical standards of Canada. So we just, we, as we, as a team, we plan, we read the material. As I mentioned, we'd love reading the technical standard. And, and then we, we, as a team have worked extremely hard to accomplish this, this certification. And of course, as you know, this certification is a very rigorous process and I'm actually very thankful to FP innovation for testing our, our, our ELD to the desk, the procedures that are released by MTA. And those are 450 tests procedures. And it take time to, to go through the mall to, to make sure that the ELD, that they are certifying meets all of the technical standards. And we feel proud of the work that they have done. And we, and I personally feel proud of the team work that we, as the Hutch warriors, we call ourselves not to worry and to, to have done and to accomplish this ELD certification. And we became the first woman. It's awesome. First of all, that a Canadian company is the first one, because you've got some pretty big players out there that are battling against you or that you are competing with. So tell us, where are you located? We are actually located in Abbotsford, British Columbia, and we are actually the farmer boy, if you can call us, cause we are in the countryside and it's an episode for British Columbia and it's a beautiful product, Columbia, I should say. And, and also beautiful Canada. And I would, that's where we are on the Pacific coast. Yeah. And as you say, congrats now, before we started, I wanted to, or, sorry, I wanted to ask you a question about why Canada decided to do the certifications as opposed to the self-certified way that the U S did. What are some of the problems with self-certification the way the U S did it, that you might look at? See my, my opinion on self-certification. I believe there's nothing wrong with the self-certification though, but there has to be some oversight. And it's like, when you, what do you play professional support and versus playing at lunchtime? You know, the difference there is a referee who's, who's actually watching the game and they, he knows the setup rules and making sure that all the players are playing according to the set of rules and if there's any falls and he calls on them, he calls on you. And so self-certification, there's nothing wrong with it, as long as there's some oversight. And when it comes down to oversighting the big industry, the U S it, it actually becomes a complicated task and the enforcement, the enforcement bodies, and, and so forth, of course, it, it, it becomes extremely challenging. And, and again, as a CPA PMTCT and all of the other government agencies, when they looked at it, what was going on in the us, I guess they must have decided that no, we want to take it a different approach. And let's actually, cause the motor carriers are the ones who are pay the consequences of choosing a non-compliant ELD. And the motor carriers already have a lot on their plates and they don't want to technical standard. Those are not everybody's cup of tea. And aware of the Canadians have chosen that to no, the, the, we want to have a third party certify it. And I believe my personal opinion is that was the right approach. And this gives the level, the playing field for every ELD provider. So they have to play by the same set of rules as Hutch System did. And all of the other, other ELD providers will be required to play by the same set of rules. No, I think you were being very politically correct in your statement about the self-certification. So I will say it in my words, because I'm not a competitor, it was a messed up System down there because there are many people who are cheating on their ELD. Don't comply with the rules and I'll tell you, and I'm sure you're aware of this, but it only really becomes important when you get into a crash. And if you're using one of the Systems that can be altered by the drivers, man, you're, you're messed up. So I'm very happy that Canada chose the certification route. And if for no other reason, it'll be, make the decision as to which ELD provider I go with my cheesier because instead of 500, in some ELD providers that they have in the states, we're going to have a much smaller number. And the first one on that list right now is Hutch. And the only one on that list right now is Hutch, which is pretty impressive. So, Sorry, let me actually, let me, let, let me actually talk to this with you here. What my, you, one of the concerns that during the testing, God, my team and that the other with the CCMP, okay. Let's see CMT. They requested Hutch Systems to of course, part of the technical standard. And that's the procedures that we must allow. Men will entry are driving events. They actually call them events and anything that's manually added in the ELD that could be changed to a duty or any other event because it's the manual entry. And when I got to know that it was required and I inquire with the MTA, they said, yes, it is inquired. I said, well, then it will be very easy for the driver to change from driving to off duty because it's manually edited event. And they said, yes, it is true. I said, well, then this mere of the certification to, to begin with, because it must not be driving time might not be shortened. And that they replied back saying, well, there are intermediate log and engine up and engine down events and so forth. And it would be up to the enforcement officer to determine that I sort of well off officers, they already have too much to worry for. And, and it's actually deceiving the purpose. And then I read that the, the automatic driving time, and I said, well, it actually mentioned that the ELD mustard record and automatic driving when it reaches eight kilometers an hour, is that a yes, that is true. So I said, well then is it required by the ELD? If the driver has a manually added driving event, is that acquired by the ELD to change it? And then do another event I would driving with an automatic status. They say, yes, that is required. I said, well, then that actually has a sound weight on it because now that time cannot be shortened. They said, yes, that time cannot be shortened. I said, well, then it was the, of the entire purpose of the driver change. You get to do manually changing it to driving prior to moving the vehicle. I said, well, I am satisfied with that. And that is the right direction. And so there were a few challenges there, the way we had to inspire with the CMTA two clarification that to clarify the item, those are listed in the restaurant Caesar. And I am very proud of the work that they have done. I'm sure there was a lot of hurdles to get over. Now. What are some of the pitfalls that you think people should be watching out for, from ELD customers as a fleet? If I'm a fleet, what are some of the pitfalls when choosing an ELD that I should be watching for? So there are C as I mentioned, that I I've been at this that year and I owned my trucking company. So I would wear the hat of me being a trucking company rather than being a salesperson, because I am a technical person. I'm not here to sell. I personally can't sell. And the, because I like to tell the truth. And I think at one point of time, the truth will prevail. And so this, through this channel, I would like to educate the motor carrier. So let me wear the hat, a virtual hat of a motor carrier, right? So there are two, there are a couple of concerns that I think of the motor carrier should pay attention to. Number of ELD are implemented as a hardwire solution and number are implemented as a handheld solution. So first of they need to determine is the ELD that I'm purchasing or, or inquiring about art? Is it a hardwire or is it a handheld? Okay. And when you want to have determined that from the ELD vendor, then you should ask yourself, how will the ELD is the ELD implemented in the app, running on a mobile device, or is it implemented in a black box? That's fine too. The ECM of the vehicle, if it is implemented on a handheld device and it's implemented in the ELD. Now you need to ask yourself, well, the ELD must be communicating with the ECM when the engine is running. And is it easy for my driver to close the app or turn off the mobile device? And that will start a logging, Barbara compliance and Malfa interrupting or negotiation malfunctions. If that is the case. Well, then, then the drivers already have too much worry out on the road. And you can just imagine that the driver is required to keep the phone running or the tablet running. And he's jumping in the sleeper berth to sleep for 10 hours. And by the time he gets up and app may have closed because, and through the System and iPhone, they're very, they're very picky on saving the battery life and they may close the app. And well, by the time the driver gets up and he already may have a malfunction and now he has to report it to the motor carrier. Motor carrier has the document. And after the documentation of what the action of the motor carrier talks. So those are, those are the ones that I would be looking for. And another one that I would look for is because it's as per the technical standard, the driver and the motor carrier, or any other person should not interfere with the location services or the times of the ELD. So you can just imagine if you go to the tablet setting, you can change the time and turn off the location services on the, on the tablet, if that is the case. Well then of course the ELD must be logging a malfunction, but you can just imagine what sort of nightmare the motor carrier may have on their plate. Then the smaller carriers may not have the luxury of implementing the safety policies and enforcing them. I do understand the larger carriers do that, but the smaller areas may not have that. So that is another, another area of concern I worked looked at when I am choosing as a motor carrier. Another thing that I would stress on is the unidentified driving. Repeat. Yeah, it's a huge problem. See, Asper, if you read the technical standard right in there, they actually it's the technical standard. They mentioned that that the motor carrier should assign ELD exempt account. And there are only two differences of between exempt account and the normal ELD driver account. And the motor carrier should not have any unidentified driving unless somebody who was not employed by the motor carrier drove that a vehicle could be, it could be the dealership where they went to get the vehicle repaired or somebody else who was a tester driving that vehicle or so forth. Then that is the only time the ELD should log on, identify the driving. And of course they can rectify that. But if your vehicle is, is a driving down the road and the Bluetooth connection or the, or the wifi direct connection, which is a local, a Wi-Fi hotspot type of connection, or the settles or network, we were medicating with the ECM drops out and the ELD starts logging on identified the driving. Or you can just imagine over a 24 hour period, how much unidentified driving that you have to worry for. And those are, that is another concern. And I should stress on this too, that when I talk to the drivers myself, if there is any malfunctions or data diagnostic events in the ELD, they don't want to drive that vehicle. This is actually very true because they are scared that somebody's going to pull them over and, and that the enforcement body will give them a hard time and that the ELD is required to log a data diagnostic event. And that data diagnostic event must be clearly visible on the ELD display to the driver and to the enforcement of the body, and also in the output files. And if there is any unidentified driving of 30 minutes or longer in a 24 hour period, it's going to log that Amal that data diagnostic event, and that's going to stay there for the next 14 days. So, so, so, so with the way that we, as a hotkey implemented, and we, we made sure that there's a no unidentified driving, unless the motor carrier has somebody who is an, who has a driver, is not employed by the motor carrier and they're operating the vehicle should put me the diesel mechanic or so forth. Those are the only times we log the unidentified driving, but every other time it's logged against the correct drivers. That's logged into ELD. So there's no one on a much an identified driving with a Hutch System. And that's, that's another key area. I think the motor carrier should pay attention. Well, As a consultant, I go in and I look at a lot of the ELD Systems and I see unidentified driving. There's just a huge amount to manage. And one of the things that I didn't know that you mentioned was if you're using a portable device, that's hooked up, you said by Bluetooth or a local wifi, it can be interfered with, I guess, and dropped. And every time it drops, it creates an event. Is that right? Yes, that is, that is very correct. It may log unidentified driving event and a plus it will log our data diagnostic event, either the engine, general things or navigation or a power compliance. And if that aggregates over the 24 hour period of more than 30 minutes, then it's going to convert into a malfunction. And as a malfunction, you, you as a driver need to report that to the motor carrier. And what good up in the ELD would be out of the 30 days, let's say as an example, 20 days of the ELD logging model functions. Well then, then that ELD is no good. And the motor carrier should look at any ELD that make their drivers life lot easier because drivers have drivers already have a lot of worry out on the road and that this ELD should not cause our driver to have an, they can have another area of that is that they need to spread for. So ELD should be to help them not to not too cumbersome. They're they're driving. And that's what we believe in. Yeah, No, I, I totally agree with you. I driver's, life is much too difficult as it is without complicating it even more. So switching, switching topics a little bit, what do you think some of the trouble spots of self-certification are, or what areas did Hutch have trouble with or what areas do you think some of the other ELD providers might have trouble complying with the cell or with the transport Canada certification? See, as I mentioned, that, that we, we certified our, our ELD with FMC S so, so we've, we had a good experience with this over the last three, four years, or, and taken all the kinks out. And, but whereas Hutch System, we control both the hardware and the software. So these are, they're actually a best Mary's like married System. And some of the, some of the other ELD vendors may not have that luxury. So they may be buying ECM modules that off the shelf from some different vendor. And that vendor may have a different interest to support their multiple customers. And whereas Hutch, we control both the hardware and the software. So we are not that big of a company, but when it comes down to designing the ELD product and we are very good at it, and with a lot of experience. And Let me ask you this, how many products does Hutch sell You mean into, in regard to the ELD space or in general? Because we are not just an ELD. We're not just in ELD company. We are actually a fleet management company, and we have a lot of variances in the ELD, GPS tracking, fuel taxes, tire pressure monitoring Systems, and a lot of other Systems that had to send them designs and takes it to the market. And so we actually have, we have a significant amount of customer base and we, those, those customers are very helpful providing feedback. And when they provide feedback, we don't just sit on it and we act, and I, I gather my team and we, we get to work and we listen to our customers. All right, We're nearing the end of our time. So I got to ask you this, you said, you're not a salesman, but let's get into it. What makes Hutch their ELD System different than your competitors? Well, I would say that our ELD, if you look at just the ELD part of it, it's be innovation. They considered our ELD to be hardware solution. And even though our ELD is, has, has the option to bring in, allow the customer to bring in their own mobile device or mobile phone, a tablet or a phone. And, but our ELD is implemented in the telematics device, which is not a dumb box. We call it black boxes, but they're not generally a black box, but the color is black. And, but they're very intelligent boxes. And that's where we implemented the ELD and all the other pitfalls, which I just mentioned, the driver going to sleep and the ELD logging malfunctions and so forth. We addressed all, all of those areas of concern with our ELD. And we make sure that there are no malfunctions at the no unidentified driving. That is a logged in our ELD, except the only time our ELD will log a malfunction of the driver is physically temporary with the ELD, meaning he's taking the ELD off of the ECM or, or he's, or there is a hard hardware failure in the ELD. And that's the only time hockey LDS will log a malfunction, but other time it's a smooth sailing and we want to have, we want our customer to have a very good experience. So One of the things I would ask people who are looking to purchase an ELD or be asking their suppliers is what types of malfunctions do they have? Because what you're saying is your System has far fewer malfunctions because it's hardwired and it's a black box System as opposed to using a portable device. Is that right? Yes, that is correct. Yeah. I mean, because no System is perfect and no System is going to go a hundred percent of the time without a malfunction after all, it's a computer. That is Correct. That is correct about the, we, as we, as a team, we made sure that we design our reliable System that is, that is there to help the motor carrier and help the drivers and that they, they should function as a designed. Yeah. And one of the other things you had mentioned when we were talking about doing an interview, and one of the things that I jumped all over, did you not mention your compliance with fuel tax as a, as a feature of your software? Yes, we actually, we do a very good job at fuel taxes. And this System that we have developed is in, was developed in the house. So, and that this, this is actually a experience of over 10 years because when the EOB BR was going to come in 2012, of course, we were designing that System on a windows CE platform, but we had to shelf that product and because the legislation did not pass, and then we jumped on GPS tracking and fuel taxes. So those were the only two areas of where we focused on at that time, back in the, at that time, before the ELD. And we do very good job at field taxes, and we make sure we have a team of, if the auditors you can call them, they audit every gift every day. And we feel proud of the work that we're doing in the, in the field tax space and our field tax space, sorry, the fuel tax reporting System, you can close your eyes and file the reports. And we are going to come up with, we actually putting a plan together where we will guarantee the, that audit any, any, if not, that is filed through our System, if there's any, if the audit or any fines so forth, and we will be taking care of those. And that's how proud that we feel for our, if the fuel tanks <inaudible>, If this is something that is critical, it, a lot of the insurance companies and everything look at the EFTA to see the reported miles to see if it's all legit and everything. Gary, last word to you. How can somebody get more information about the Hutch ELD System that is transport Canada approved? How did they get more information? Well, they can actually, first of all, we are listed on transport Canada site, the on there, and they can actually contact us through our website, which is www.app Systems.com or they can call our, our telephone number is six oh four seven seven six three five six. And we would be more than happy to help them out any way possible. And Of course, I've got those links in the show notes down below. So if, as long as you're not driving, you can click on the link or save this episode and click on the link a little bit later to reach out to Gary's team. Gary, I want to thank you so much for coming on. And once again, congrats for being at this point, the only ELD certified provider in Canada, and it's been what two weeks already, and nobody else has got certified yet. Yeah, we were, we, we got this to the July, the 23rd, and of course we had a little bit to word prior to that, but that was the time that we, we felt that our lead, because during the testing, we, we continue to work on our ELD. We didn't, we didn't let our guards down and we still do. And the, now we have set the goals for another milestone. Then of course we are going to achieve those. And just the last thing I want our listeners to be aware of, I do believe that there will be many, fewer, much fewer number of ELD certified, and one of the reasons, and I didn't realize it until I was talking to you, Gary, there is a substantial fee that goes with getting self-serve or getting certified. It's not done by the government for free, you're paying for that process. And there's also a renewal process. Is there not for the ELD Systems? Yes, that is very correct. And of course there's some surveillance fees. And when I was talking to FP innovation and they, they told me one thing, Harry, make sure your ELD continue to comply with transport Canada website. And we will be surveillancing your ELD and F if we find that it is not a compliant, well, then we will talk to you. And it's actually a very, very strong a message to the ELD provider. Like it's not just the, the journey has just begun as the, the getting our ELD certification was just the beginning of it. And now actually the proof work is actually starting now because there will be surveillancing. And we, we need to be on top of the game to make sure that our ELD Bentley needs to comply with the transport Canada mandate and that it meets all the technical standards. Beautiful. Thanks, Gary. And congrats once again to Hutch Systems and your team for being the first certified ELD provider in Canada. And thank you and thank you all my warriors. And as I mentioned, we called them Hutch warriors. Then I'm actually gonna congratulate every Hutch warrior that, that I was talking to Chris, and that Chris had me on his channel. And thank you Chris very much. Hey, You're welcome, Gary. Thanks for coming on. I hope you love the show as much as I did. Please leave us a, like a thumbs up a review, a comment, a rating, if it is, thank you so much. And I do really appreciate your time and join us again next week for another exciting <inaudible>.